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unfortunately, the burden is on romney and ryan. we already know what to expect with biden and with obama. but unfortunately, romney and ryan have the burden to say we can change the trajectory of the conversation of what's going on in the country and do it well, and that didn't happen with clarity and conviction last night. >> i half agree with carol on that point. but the other part of the equation -- >> i don't think you can agree with that point, because the only poll i have seen about undecided was done by any major network was cbs and it was pretty clear who won the debate amongst uncommitted voters, ryan 31%, biden 50%. he smashed him which was my reading of it in the moment. >> look, people are voting right now in ohio. so if you've made up your mind in ohio and you watched last night's debate, you were energized and went out to the polls and voted, that makes an impact on the election. governor romney can't win without ohio. there are, there is a narrow sliver of voters that are still in play in some of these states. i thin
unfortunately, the burden is on romney and ryan. we already know what to expect with biden and with obama. but unfortunately, romney and ryan have the burden to say we can change the trajectory of the conversation of what's going on in the country and do it well, and that didn't happen with clarity and conviction last night. >> i half agree with carol on that point. but the other part of the equation -- >> i don't think you can agree with that point, because the only poll i have...
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Oct 11, 2012
10/12
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romney said today under duress that the romney/ryan position is the romney/ryan position, there's no difference between them. and he said you'll hear more about it at the vice presidential debate tomorrow. i bet you will. joining us now is steve kornacki, co-host of "the cycle." thanks for being here. >> thanks for having me. >> the democrats have been aggressive in driving their campaigning on this issue, because they think that's a key issue for locking up the women's vote. with this walkback, this attempted and failed walkback that happened within the last 24 hours from the romney campaign, do you think that's going to have an impact there? >> yeah. there's some interesting data that came out in the last few days which i think is what was initially behind what mitt romney said, taking a more moderate position on abortion. first you had this poll that came out in ohio, showing obama ahead of romney by four. the gender gap in this thing was astounding. among men, romney had a 16-point lead in ohio. among women, 60-38, obama. that is like a 38-point gender gap. i have not seen someth
romney said today under duress that the romney/ryan position is the romney/ryan position, there's no difference between them. and he said you'll hear more about it at the vice presidential debate tomorrow. i bet you will. joining us now is steve kornacki, co-host of "the cycle." thanks for being here. >> thanks for having me. >> the democrats have been aggressive in driving their campaigning on this issue, because they think that's a key issue for locking up the women's...
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Oct 11, 2012
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couple of weeks from the romney-ryan campaign. a week ago, we had a presidential debate, mitt romney all of a sudden said there was no $5 trillion cu tax cut. i imagine that will be a topic. paul ryan once said he didn't have time to do the math on the tax cut. openfully tonight over 90 minutes he can do the math for us. >> bret: you even concedeed on the show with the deduction and credits while they haven't listed them specifically it wouldn't $5 trillion. >> here is what i said. he put out a number of tax cuts whether it's the estate tax, lowering everyone's rate by 20%, getting rid of the amt, payroll tax, number of tax cut he put on the table. the sum of the tax cuts is $5 trillion. >> bret: he said in the debate? you capped it, set a cap you could reach it. tax policy center which you cite, campaign cites says that you could reach the number that he is talking about -- >> no, it didn't say that. if you could reach the number -- you could add up the deduction and loopholes to $5 trillion if you raise taxes on the middle class
couple of weeks from the romney-ryan campaign. a week ago, we had a presidential debate, mitt romney all of a sudden said there was no $5 trillion cu tax cut. i imagine that will be a topic. paul ryan once said he didn't have time to do the math on the tax cut. openfully tonight over 90 minutes he can do the math for us. >> bret: you even concedeed on the show with the deduction and credits while they haven't listed them specifically it wouldn't $5 trillion. >> here is what i said....
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Oct 12, 2012
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congressman ryan did a great job in explaining governor romney's position on those. i also think that -- >> go ahead. >> avoided mistakes and the vice president didn't. his statements on benghazi as you've been covering andrea, are going to be an ongoing problem for the administration. they really just enhanced the contradictions in the administration's policy. >> there were other issues for paul ryan, though, when it came to medicare and tax policy that have been questioned. what about the differences over medicare, health care? he said that there were no -- that there was no study, no statistics that show increased costs in ryan one in the first medicare proposal which the congressional budget office says is not the case. ryan two is another issue. they were debating ryan one. do you think this is going to be a problem with seniors and the vote in florida and other key states? >> i don't think so. i think the romney ticket is winning on that issue and it's just uncontested that the administration takes money out of medicare, $700 billion to pay for obama care. you
congressman ryan did a great job in explaining governor romney's position on those. i also think that -- >> go ahead. >> avoided mistakes and the vice president didn't. his statements on benghazi as you've been covering andrea, are going to be an ongoing problem for the administration. they really just enhanced the contradictions in the administration's policy. >> there were other issues for paul ryan, though, when it came to medicare and tax policy that have been questioned....
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Oct 12, 2012
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making this an issue. >> that last thing, blaming the romney-ryan ticket. i'll give the case to the defense to you, but i've got to say joe biden said the intelligence didn't tell them anything. the state department knew in real time that this had nothing to do with spontaneous protests about the video. that's point number one. point number two, biden said last night that he did not know or that there was no request from the state department for extra security in the benghazi consulate. the reality is, we have all learned, they made not one, not two, but five requests for additional security which were all turned down at the white house and the national security council. biden -- i think you and jennifer raise a lot of good points that absolutely should be checked in days to come, but you know, larry, you have to check both sides. i didn't like your introduction. we'll check biden's lies and it's lefshlgity mat to fact check and let's not call people liars. >> look at what the obama administration has done. >> it's three against one so give me fair time. >>
making this an issue. >> that last thing, blaming the romney-ryan ticket. i'll give the case to the defense to you, but i've got to say joe biden said the intelligence didn't tell them anything. the state department knew in real time that this had nothing to do with spontaneous protests about the video. that's point number one. point number two, biden said last night that he did not know or that there was no request from the state department for extra security in the benghazi consulate....
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Oct 14, 2012
10/12
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he said romney is a car guy. that is not a answer on the bailout. that is not an explanation. >> i think on domestic policy ryan did okay. most of the debate was foreign policy. but on domestic policy he did okay with the exception of his discussion of entitlement reform. biden got the best of him when he said who do you trust. he talked to the camera and that came off well for biden. he was defensive, ryan was in defending the budget proposal from the past and got distracted and on the whole rhine rain had a strong night. >> will this impact the presidential race, dan? or are we going to forget about it except for the saturday night clips. >> i think it will have an affect on the race. voters out there that are going to decide the election are paying close attention to what these people are saying in termings of why the economy is behaving poorly . if connected to what bark obama is doing in his stump speeches. he mocks and ridicules romney rather than (talking all at once.) ing about his record. biden's weird performance is a technique they adopte
he said romney is a car guy. that is not a answer on the bailout. that is not an explanation. >> i think on domestic policy ryan did okay. most of the debate was foreign policy. but on domestic policy he did okay with the exception of his discussion of entitlement reform. biden got the best of him when he said who do you trust. he talked to the camera and that came off well for biden. he was defensive, ryan was in defending the budget proposal from the past and got distracted and on the...
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Oct 12, 2012
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governor romney and congressman ryan. >> you know, in terms of the political saigs of this we're here at a debate. but the entire reason that this has become the you know political topic it is is because of mitt romney and paul ryan. it's a big part of their stump speech. it's reckless and irresponsible. >> greta: what about at ab? you've got sound byte of the vice president and the sound byte of stephanie cutter. the vice president seems to have his facts fuzzy z stephanie blaming romney. >> the administration has a problem with the libya story. everyone knows what happened and everyone read all of the accounts, these conflicting accounts and they vai problem with this. and they need to know it. they need to figure this out. and if biden says something today that turns out to be, can be proven wrong in the next couple days that actually divides president and president knew their requests for more security from benghazi to the state department and they're turned down, they knew it all along. that is going to be a huge problem. but this story is a huge problem if that is never determin
governor romney and congressman ryan. >> you know, in terms of the political saigs of this we're here at a debate. but the entire reason that this has become the you know political topic it is is because of mitt romney and paul ryan. it's a big part of their stump speech. it's reckless and irresponsible. >> greta: what about at ab? you've got sound byte of the vice president and the sound byte of stephanie cutter. the vice president seems to have his facts fuzzy z stephanie blaming...
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Oct 13, 2012
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big jump, 4 out of 5 polls, mitt romney and paul ryan lead. have you big poll numbers in florida and virginia, showing people in just a second. abc and cbs admits the ticket is gaining ground, post debate. nbc, no, not much of an impact at ms-nbc. >> florida, ohio and virginia, battleground states. what we see on the screen, a tight, tight, dead heat in florida and in virginia. in ohio, you still see the president hanging on to a lead. i guess you could say that romney has the trend line, but ohio is still a problem. >> another factor in all three of these polls, over 90% said the debate made no difference. 6, 7 and 7% respectively who said the debates mattered to their vote. that is, not as helpful to romney as he might have hoped. >> the debate has not as much of an impact. >> sean: i was thinking that if joe biden loses and 25 day, i am thinking that nbc news -- it's a perfect place for an unhinged, over-the-top, extreme leftist. he would be perfect over there. >> chuck todd, the political director of nbc news labeled the rasmussen poll, qu
big jump, 4 out of 5 polls, mitt romney and paul ryan lead. have you big poll numbers in florida and virginia, showing people in just a second. abc and cbs admits the ticket is gaining ground, post debate. nbc, no, not much of an impact at ms-nbc. >> florida, ohio and virginia, battleground states. what we see on the screen, a tight, tight, dead heat in florida and in virginia. in ohio, you still see the president hanging on to a lead. i guess you could say that romney has the trend line,...
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e ng ly voters and romney-ryan ticket with one-point lead within the marginf error. among independent voters changed significantly. 44 to #he y.at b s. e, promised, your thoughts on how the race has shifted as we get ready to head to danville, kencky, tomorrow for the vice presidential debate? >> i think, evidence in the president's meants right there. i think theyon't kwow erhi de sha itee surge. it looks like sustained surge. you seen the white house scram to believe come up with an answer. first they said he was too conservative, then a flip-floper and then it was about big bird and he wasn't ri tnem waio wreas, they spent most of the campaign arguing that ryan and romney were radical, they wanted to overturn medicare, redo medicare. they just can't find their threoi b t solidumso emthomis a liar. the media amplified it. but it's not convincing argument when you have 70 million people watching wh ry s >> bret: they tried to jump on the statement that he made and romney saying there is no legislation with regard to abortion that i'm familiar with tt would become pa
e ng ly voters and romney-ryan ticket with one-point lead within the marginf error. among independent voters changed significantly. 44 to #he y.at b s. e, promised, your thoughts on how the race has shifted as we get ready to head to danville, kencky, tomorrow for the vice presidential debate? >> i think, evidence in the president's meants right there. i think theyon't kwow erhi de sha itee surge. it looks like sustained surge. you seen the white house scram to believe come up with an...
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isn't ryan supposed to be the brain of the romney campaign and we're lacking specifics? i mean, wasn't that a poor explanation? >> well, yes, and let me give you his idea of a study. he said there are six studies. three of those six studies are blog posts and one of them is by a research assistant at aei, which is one of the big ideological marketing organizations that pitch you their view of the world just the way companies advertise other products. but blog posts, those are studies that prove things? that's hilarious. >> why doesn't the plan add up? why doesn't his so-called plan for america, the 20% cut, add up? where's the flaw? >> well, it does add up for the very rich. if you listen very carefully to what romney always says, he says he's going to cut rates 20% and then he's going to see to it that those at the top don't pay a larger share of the total tax burden. well, that means that they're going to get a huge decrease in their tax bill. that's the important element. that is the ryan/romney plan, it is to create dynastic wealth which i think would be devastating
isn't ryan supposed to be the brain of the romney campaign and we're lacking specifics? i mean, wasn't that a poor explanation? >> well, yes, and let me give you his idea of a study. he said there are six studies. three of those six studies are blog posts and one of them is by a research assistant at aei, which is one of the big ideological marketing organizations that pitch you their view of the world just the way companies advertise other products. but blog posts, those are studies that...
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now we're coming up to romney and ryan. not this debate specifically coming after president obama's gaffe before. >> that was a big thing for everybody here in the room. this was a big debate obviously because of president obama's performance last time. glen, that's why you paid a lot of attention here tonight, correct? >> yes, i think biden came on real strong and confident. i think he needed to do that because obama's performance last week was disappointing. >> and do you think the president will be up to it now that the bar's been raised next week? >> we'll see. >> you're still undecided. >> yes. >> sam, you're still undecided. you gave me an answer earlier. you said, you know, they've been running for president for months and months and months. you have the internet, newspapers, radio, tv. you're getting bombarded by ads here. why can't you make up your mind? >> as i said before, we work for a living. you know, a lot of us get up at 4:00 a.m., go to work for 12, 14 hours. we're at home with our kids. we're not doing thi
now we're coming up to romney and ryan. not this debate specifically coming after president obama's gaffe before. >> that was a big thing for everybody here in the room. this was a big debate obviously because of president obama's performance last time. glen, that's why you paid a lot of attention here tonight, correct? >> yes, i think biden came on real strong and confident. i think he needed to do that because obama's performance last week was disappointing. >> and do you...
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of romney-ryan and obama-biden. that's what we're debating tonight. >> why do people watch a vice presidential debate? do they watch it for a policy debate, or do they watch it to see can these guys become president of the united states? >> this stuff is always anecdotal. it's like sports. people have an opinion out of these debates. i think about it more as this month. these few weeks, the debate phase of the campaign. up until now, the entire campaign is about tv ads, surrogates arguing on televis n television, media pundits providing the analysis. and what was striking about last week's debate between governor romney and president obama, first time 90 minutes unfiltered, these two men going face to face, challenging one another. that's what this is about. it's just about suddenly we get to see the two leaders, in this case, the two vps. >> sort of philosophical. just part two of this philosophical debate. >> correct. it's the only moment in the campaign. last week 70 million viewers. this week, who knows how many
of romney-ryan and obama-biden. that's what we're debating tonight. >> why do people watch a vice presidential debate? do they watch it for a policy debate, or do they watch it to see can these guys become president of the united states? >> this stuff is always anecdotal. it's like sports. people have an opinion out of these debates. i think about it more as this month. these few weeks, the debate phase of the campaign. up until now, the entire campaign is about tv ads, surrogates...
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Oct 12, 2012
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you had paul ryan embracing the across the board tax cut mitt romney is running on. he was pressed by martha, who did an excellent job exactly specifically you do to pay for that tax cut, totally evaded that. what happened was as happened on other issues, joe biden got frustrated. you saw biden, he variously was laughing, smiling, got angry at times. i think there were times at which that demeanor did not serve him well. ryan did not get flustered. did have some republican political strategists who i talked to during the debate thought ryan looked a little bit smug at times. ryan, of course, is young, he has to worry about looking like the junior varsity against the older guy. bottom line, i don't think anybody dominated the debate but i thought ryan did well and i think basically what we've done is set the table for the debate next week with obama and romney. that is going to determine what the next pivot in this race is. >> john, just to bring up a couple of points. we did have an informal poll on cnbc, about 3,000 people wrote in, based on what they have been writ
you had paul ryan embracing the across the board tax cut mitt romney is running on. he was pressed by martha, who did an excellent job exactly specifically you do to pay for that tax cut, totally evaded that. what happened was as happened on other issues, joe biden got frustrated. you saw biden, he variously was laughing, smiling, got angry at times. i think there were times at which that demeanor did not serve him well. ryan did not get flustered. did have some republican political strategists...
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ryan to get to romney. y'all keep saying it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter. they don't have a program that's viable. joe will take them to the woodshed. >> greg: really? what do you think? woodshed? >> eric: i don't think there is a woodshed for either side. look at it logically. joe biden right now, the momentum after the last debate, momentum switched to romney campaign. joe biden, he wants to be president some day. he is not going to out there and take a chance to ruin 2016 for himself. he'll be aggressive. there is no reason to numberable ball. no reason to show off. keep it straight by the numbers. >> bob: he is smarter. have you read today's polls? >> greg: dana, you have limited experience with politics. do you think slogans are meaningless? g.m. is alive and bin laden is dead at this point. >> dana: i hope they don't use that. they need new material. we're hearing the same thing from 2008. like watching soap opera if you didn't pay attention and you just watched the last presidential election and
ryan to get to romney. y'all keep saying it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter. they don't have a program that's viable. joe will take them to the woodshed. >> greg: really? what do you think? woodshed? >> eric: i don't think there is a woodshed for either side. look at it logically. joe biden right now, the momentum after the last debate, momentum switched to romney campaign. joe biden, he wants to be president some day. he is not going to out there and take a chance to ruin 2016...
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after the vice president debate, romney-ryan ticket is riding high with polls and pundits dubbing it a draw. >> did you get a chance to watch the debate last night? yeah. yeah. i think you might agree with me that there was one person on stage last night who was thoughtful, and respectful, steady, and poised. the kind of perp you want to turn to in a crisis. that was the next vice president of the united states paul ryan. [ applause ] >> i feel great. >> over breakfast, ryan said he was pleased by the performance and had been ready for biden's attacks. >> how do you feel? >> it's what i expected. >> biden was clearly the aggressor. >> with all due respect that's a bunch of mu lar i can. >> vice president scoffed so much at ryan the rnc pumped out a web video immediately. snap polls showed a split decision. 48% of debate watchers said ryan won in cnn poll to 44% biden. >> we're saying these are from your act wares -- >> who interrupted ryan so often he accused biden overcompensating for the president's losing performance last week. >> i know you're under a lot of duress to make up for
after the vice president debate, romney-ryan ticket is riding high with polls and pundits dubbing it a draw. >> did you get a chance to watch the debate last night? yeah. yeah. i think you might agree with me that there was one person on stage last night who was thoughtful, and respectful, steady, and poised. the kind of perp you want to turn to in a crisis. that was the next vice president of the united states paul ryan. [ applause ] >> i feel great. >> over breakfast, ryan...
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Oct 14, 2012
10/12
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we cannot fall in the policies of romney ryan. when you ask yourself what is at stake who do you trust for your families and with your future and will have your back have president obama back stand up for him one more time and continue to move forward with the policies of president obama. with that allow us to bring up someone who has been a champion been an al lie and a friend to us forsome years, someone who has stood by the side of the p president over the last few years. someone who can speak to his character and say he's the same man when we met him many years ago. let us bring up our brother mr. love. >> that was a fiery speech right there. so first and foremost thanks for everyone being here today. it's a beautiful day in norfolk. and this beautiful campus, it remind me of north carolina a little bit. >> thank you for all your hard work. i've had the pleasure of working with president obama even before we all called him president. he was the same as he is now extremely intelligent, extremely diligent. he's a patriot that ex
we cannot fall in the policies of romney ryan. when you ask yourself what is at stake who do you trust for your families and with your future and will have your back have president obama back stand up for him one more time and continue to move forward with the policies of president obama. with that allow us to bring up someone who has been a champion been an al lie and a friend to us forsome years, someone who has stood by the side of the p president over the last few years. someone who can...
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>> mitt romney put paul ryan on the ticket. that's not running away from the plan. >> but i mean -- he didn't embrace the ryan budget. it was too tough for him perhaps? >> correct me if i'm wrong, my understanding governor romney has been complimentary of the ryan budget plan and recognizes that we need to make reforms so that the big entitlement programs will be there for the next generation we need to tighten the belt on discreti discretionary spending. i disagree. >> mitt romney's tax proposals, because he has said that he can cut taxes without blowing up the deficit, without being deficit neutral, and at the same time keep defense spending. >> yeah. >> increase the defense budget. how does that work? >> governor romney said he can lower marginal tax rates and generate offsetting revenue so we don't increase the side of the deficit. >> how do you generate that? >> you reduce the number of write-offs and loopholes in some combinations. >> which would you reduce? he's not been specific. >> he's provided more specificity than t
>> mitt romney put paul ryan on the ticket. that's not running away from the plan. >> but i mean -- he didn't embrace the ryan budget. it was too tough for him perhaps? >> correct me if i'm wrong, my understanding governor romney has been complimentary of the ryan budget plan and recognizes that we need to make reforms so that the big entitlement programs will be there for the next generation we need to tighten the belt on discreti discretionary spending. i disagree. >>...
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gwen: and yet we've seen mitt romney and paul ryan continuing to talk about this every single day. which is interesting. because we are told that americans aren't voting on foreign policy issues. and yet here is one that won't go away. >> it's interesting also because this issue is -- is an issue that until quite recently, president obama had a huge lead against -- gwen: you were saying osama bin laden and the conversation would end. >> the polls do suggest they are chipping away at that. it's an interesting strategy, though, because as one republican strategist who's worried about it told me, when you start playing on those issues, you are playing on the commander in chief's turf. and the only time that that has ever really worked and made a difference in an election was with jimmy carter. gwen: and one of the things that joe biden was trying to do was to get back at that is to put the grinning and the smiling and the condescension was to try to say i know this guy. you can back up on this. and even on domestic issues, like the stimulus. which the republicans have always criticize
gwen: and yet we've seen mitt romney and paul ryan continuing to talk about this every single day. which is interesting. because we are told that americans aren't voting on foreign policy issues. and yet here is one that won't go away. >> it's interesting also because this issue is -- is an issue that until quite recently, president obama had a huge lead against -- gwen: you were saying osama bin laden and the conversation would end. >> the polls do suggest they are chipping away at...
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biden was defending the middle class while ryan was defending romney. biden's greatest asset was his passion though he might have been over the top. it was possible for a viewer to conclude that he was simply passionate about the middle class. take a look at joe biden early in the debate going after romney on his 47% comments. >> but it shouldn't be surprising for a guy who says 47% of the american people are unwilling to take responsibility for their own lives. my friend recently in a speech in washington said 30% of the american people are takers. these people are my mom and dad, the people i grew up with, my neighbors. they pay more effective tax than governor romney pays in his federal income tax. i have had it up to here with this notion that 47% -- it's about time they take some responsibility here, and instead of signing pledges to grover norquist not to ask the wealthiest among us to contribute to bring back the middle class, they should be signing a pledge saying to the middle class, we're going to level the playing field. >> joe klein, that's
biden was defending the middle class while ryan was defending romney. biden's greatest asset was his passion though he might have been over the top. it was possible for a viewer to conclude that he was simply passionate about the middle class. take a look at joe biden early in the debate going after romney on his 47% comments. >> but it shouldn't be surprising for a guy who says 47% of the american people are unwilling to take responsibility for their own lives. my friend recently in a...
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have to do more explaining and in the first hour he did a better job hitting at romney than ryan did hitting at obama. i think ryan, though, was, came across as ernest, knowledgeable and polite, whereas especially in that first hour, joe biden was clearly playing b cable debate rules, which is interrupt and talk over your opponent at will. i think al is right that is going to enthuse democrats. i am not sure how it is going to play with undecided voters. me personally and i am not an undecided veert it came across as off putting, obnoxious and rude and i can guarantee that on the shows tomorrow morning and in the cable discussion going forward, tomorrow and into the weekend the biden smiles and the biden smirks and the biden interruptions will be a juicy topic for discussion. >> rose: mark hall snrin. >> halperin? >> well, i am mostly going to paraphrase what rich lowry just said, there are two things that clearly come out of this, one is the detrimentally base is going to be pleased that they thought, saw the somebody fighting on their behalf and being aggressive on a lot of big iss
have to do more explaining and in the first hour he did a better job hitting at romney than ryan did hitting at obama. i think ryan, though, was, came across as ernest, knowledgeable and polite, whereas especially in that first hour, joe biden was clearly playing b cable debate rules, which is interrupt and talk over your opponent at will. i think al is right that is going to enthuse democrats. i am not sure how it is going to play with undecided voters. me personally and i am not an undecided...
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did ryan help maintain the romney momentum? >> this is a classic case where both sides of the aisle people saw what they wanted to see. >> joining me now is brad woodhouse, communications director of the democrat national committee. thanks for joining us today. >> thanks, richard. >> the vice president is being hammered by people who say he was laughing inappropriately, very energetic certainly. smirking, interrupting frequently. let's play some of those moments for our viewers, first. >> under a romney administration, we will have credibility on this issue. >> vice president biden? >> it's incredible. >> thank heaven which have these sanctions in place. >> oh, god. >> it's been discredited by six other studies. over 100 criminal investigations. >> martha. >> go ahead. >> martha, look. >> here is some of what the republicans are saying about the vice president's performance last night. >> reminded me of al gore in 2000 walking over and standing by president bush sort of getting in his space. >> i don't know if he thought this w
did ryan help maintain the romney momentum? >> this is a classic case where both sides of the aisle people saw what they wanted to see. >> joining me now is brad woodhouse, communications director of the democrat national committee. thanks for joining us today. >> thanks, richard. >> the vice president is being hammered by people who say he was laughing inappropriately, very energetic certainly. smirking, interrupting frequently. let's play some of those moments for our...